We settled down a little ways above Fort Gibson. He sure stood good with de Cherokee neighbors we had, and dey all liked him. Well, I'll tell you, you pull it out from the wall something like a shelf. I never did have much of a job, jest tending de calves mostly. Sometimes just white folks danced; sometimes just the black folks. North Carolina had the highest population of Vann families in 1840. The married folks lived in little houses and there was big long houses for all the single men. John Joseph 'Indian Trader' Cherokee Vann 1735 - 1815. I never did see my daddy excepting when I was a baby and I only know what my mammy told me about him. My pappy run away one time, four or five years before I was born, mammy tell me, and at that time a whole lot of Cherokee slaves run off at once. There'd be a whole wagon-load of things come and be put on the tree. Young Master Vann never very hard on us and he never whupped us, and ole Mistress was a widow woman and a good Christian and always kind. It look lots of clothes for all them slaves. Mammy got a wagon and we traveled around a few days to go to Fort Gibson. Everybody went---white folks, colored folks. Married, Georgia., USA, to Elizabeth Catherine Rowe 1798-with. I don’t know about Robert Lee, but I know about Lee’s Creek. Had to sign up all over again and tell who we was. In the pre-dawn hours of November 15, 1842, the Negroes locked their still-sleeping masters and overseers in their homes. John was born circa 1738, in North Carolina, USA. Their slaves also helped build the nearby Moravian mission and school in Spring Place. He took us back to Texas right down near where I was born at Bellview. Perdue, Theda, "The Conflict Within: The Cherokee Power Structure and Removal," Georgia Historical Quarterly, 73 (Fall, 1989), pp. William H. Vann in the book Cherokee Origins believes that Joseph Vann was the father, while Virginia Vann Perry claims a man named James Vann was the father. Upon being brought to Fort Gibson, five slaves were held to stand trial for murdering the two bounty hunters. Joseph Vann, son of Chief Joseph Vann and his wife Margaret Scott Vann, married first, Jennie Springton, born December 23, 1804, died August 4, 1863. Lord no, he didn't. 1735 Bertie, Chowan County, North Carolina, Colonial America died 1781 Spring Place, Murray County, Georgia, USA including research + descendants + 8 genealogist comments + questions + DNA connections + more in the free family tree community. - Record for Lucy Jones, Residence - Labuco, Sylvan Springs, Jefferson Co., Alabama, USA, Sources: Public Member Trees - Ancestry.com - Name: Name: Name: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.; Location: Provo, UT,USA; Date:2006;;; - - Database online. They'd bring whole wagon loads of hams, chickens and cake and pie. Dey would come up in a bunch of about nine men on horses and look at all our passes, and if a negro didn't have no pass dey wore him out good and made him go home. Somehow or other they all took a liking to me, all through the family. He'd take us and enjoy us, you know. The big House was a double log wid a big hall and a stone chimney but no porches, wid two rooms at each end, one top side of de other. Master went plumb blind after he move back to Webber's Falls and so he move up on de Illinois River, about three miles from de Arkansas, and there old Mistress take de white swelling and die and den he die pretty soon. Suggested use: Print a copy of this free research checklist, and keep track of the Vann genealogy resources that you visit. She married as her second husband, Thomas Mitchell. Another oral history interview of a former slave of the Vann's: http://www.accessgenealogy.com/black-genealogy/slave-narrative-of-betty-robertson.htm. It had no windows, but it had a wood floor that was kept clean with plenty of brushings, and a fireplace where mammy'd cook the turnip greens and peas and corn--I still likes the cornbread with fingerprints baked on it like in the old days when it was cooked on a skillet over the hot wood ashes. Our marshal made us all sign up like this; who are you, where you come from, where you go to. Susannah Vann. Master's name was Joe Sheppard, and he was a Cherokee Indian. Page 15 - Research Vann in the Surnames forums on Genealogy.com, the new GenForum! We had bonnets that had long silk tassels for ties. The Vanns later relocated to Indian Territory, present-day Oklahoma. Discover the family tree of Joseph Rich Joe Vann for free, and learn about their family history and their ancestry. Everybody had a good time. {{ mediasCtrl.geTitle(media, true) }} My uncle Joe was de slave boss and he tell us what de Master say do. After the old time rich folks die, them that had their money buried, they com back and haunt the places where it is. That mean't she want a biscuit with a little butter on it. Everybody a hollerin' and a cryin'. He would tell em plain before hand, "Now no trouble." Some of the Master’s family was always going down to the river and back, and every time they come in I have to fix something to eat. I slept on a sliding bed. Clement Vann. Hams cakes, pies, dresses, beads, everything. dwight vann 5/08/12. Feb 11 1798 - New Spring Place, Cherokee Nation, Indian Territory, United States, Oct 23 1844 - Louisville, Jefferson, Kentucky, United States, Spring Place, Murray County, Georgia, United States, Cherokee (ᏣᎳᎩ) Principal Chiefs and Uka: Eastern, Western and Keetoowah, Sarah "Sally" Nicholson or Trapper, Tacah To Kah Do Key, http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lpproots/Neeley/cvann.htm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Walker_steamboat_disaster. Discover the family tree of Joseph Rich Joe Vann for free, and learn about their family history and their ancestry. He is indeed of warm temper, but who can gain his love, which is no hard task, has gained all, and we have no doubt that with reasonable management, he may be made a very useful man.". He wanted people to know he was able to dress his slaves in fine clothes. - Record for Joseph William Vann, Residence - Alabama Census. My mother died when I'se small and my father married Delia Vann. Although Joseph Vann's body was never found, slave Lucinda Vann revealed that one of his arms had been found, positively identified, and taken to Vann's home at Webbers Falls, Oklahoma, where it was preserved for many years. Home . The women dressed in whtie, if they had a white dress to wear. My names' Lucinda Vann, I've been married twice but that don't make no difference. They was Cherokee Indians. She holler, "Easter, you go right now and make dat big buck of a boy some britches!". Father of Nancy Vann; David Vann; Sallie Blackburn Vore; William Vann; Sophia S. Johnson and 9 others; Charles J. Vann; Delilah Amelia Brewer; Joseph W. Vann; Jane Elizabeth Vann; John Shepherd Vann, Sr.; James Springston Vann; Mary Frances Vann; Henry Clay Vann and Minerva Vann « less The 1860 Census records for Oklahoma (the last Census of the slavery era), indicates that the Cherokees held 4,600 Negro slaves; the Chickasaws owned 975; the Choctaws owned, 2,344; the Creeks held 1,532; and the Seminoles reportedly owned 500. My mammy was a Crossland Negro before she come to belong to Master Joe and marry my pappy, and I think she come wid old Mistress and belong to her. John was born circa 1690, in Bertie, North Carolina, United States. When we wanted to go anywhere we always got a horse, we never walked. He would tell em plain before hand, "Now no trouble." In one month you have to get back. The colored folks did most of the fiddlin'. He passed away on 21 Feb 1809 in Shot at Buffington Tavern, GA, USA. Old Master had some kind of business in Fort Smith, I think cause he used to ride into dat town about every day on his horse. Pappy's name was Caesar Sheppard and Mammy's name was Easter. *Andrew Bell Cunningham, Chief for 17 days: Nov. 8-25, 1919; Edward M. Fry, Chief for 1 day: June 23, 1923; *Richard B. Choate, Chief for 1 day, 1925; *Charles J. 29 November 2015. http://www.accessgenealogy.com/black-genealogy/slave-narrative-of-betty-robertson.htm - Last updated on Aug 24th, 2012, VANN SLAVES REMEMBER © 2003 By Herman McDaniel Murray County Museum. My uncle belong to old Captain Joe nearly all his life. of Joseph W. Vann and Lucy Ann Jones. Chiefv James Clemons Clement John Hon Cherokee Isaac Clements Chief Vann, 1766 - 1809 Chiefv James Clemons Clement John Hon Cherokee Isaac … Record for Joseph W Vann, The Geneanet family trees are powered by Geneweb 7.0. When Marster Jim and Missus Jennie went away, the slaves would have a big dance in the arbor. Surname Finder, The Vann Genealogy and Family Tree Page [on-line resource], New Providence, NJ, USA: Genealogy Today LLC, 2020. Joseph Vann was the son of Chief Crazy James Vann , a half-breed Cherokee and Elizabeth Hicks. Mary (Polly) Scott 1790 - Unknown. Cal Robertson was eighty-nine years old when I married him forty years age, right on this porch. One day young Master come to the cabins and say we all free and can’t stay there less’n we want to go on working for him just like we’d been, for our feed and clothes. This is a reconstruction of the non-Indian immediate relatives of Chief James Vann, based on the solid evidence of Cherokee sources (especially the Moravian Diaries at Spring Place,GA 1800-1836), plus confirming information obtained from postings on the Vann Family Forum: He builds the large brick mansion house at Spring Place, Murray Country, Georgia, which stands today as a monument at its owner. The big house was made of log and stone and had big mud fireplaces. c. 1965 - Unknown . Today is 20/Jul/2020. Born 1909 and died 1963. I don’t know, but that was before my time. Uncle Joe tell us all to lay low and work hard and nobody'd bother us and he would look after us. I went to the missionary Baptist church where Marster and Missus went. Old Mistress had inherited some property from her pappy and dey had de slave money and when dey turned everything into good money after de War dat stuff only come to about six thousand dollars in good money, she told me. 1848 - 1881 . You see, I'se one of them sudden cases. A whole half of ribs sold for twenty-five cents. He come from across the water when he was a little boy, and was grown when old Master Joseph Vann bought him, so he never did learn to talk much Cherokee. When the War come they have a big battle away west of us, but I never see any battles. Dere was a sister named Patsy; she died at Wagoner, Oklahoma. Some 70 years after "the War," during America's Great Depression, the Works Progress Administration assigned numerous people to interview former slaves and record their recollections of slavery. He wouldn't take us way off, but just for a ride. Family History Learning Hub ; My Trees ; Start a New Tree ; Upload a GEDCOM ; Search & Browse. He tell us for we start, what we must say and what to do. John Vann. My missus name was Doublehead before she married Jim Vann. In writing of him the Reverend John Gamble, a Moravian missionary said: "Mrs. Gamble and I love him as our own child and have not a complaint against him. In the years following his father's death, Joseph added to this estate. The most Vann families were found in the USA in 1880. Young Master Joe let us have singing and be baptized if we want to, but I wasn't baptized till after the War. Women came in satin dresses, all dressed up, big combs in their hair, lots of rings and bracelets. Brown sugar, molasses, flour, corn-meal, dried beans, peas, fruits butter lard, was all kept in big wooden hogsheads; look something like a tub. He sold one of my brothers and one sister because they kept running off. But we couldn't learn to read or have a book, and the Cherokee folks was afraid to tell us about the letters because they have a law you go to jail and a big fine if you show a slave about the letters. Master Jim and Missus Jennie was good to their slaves. Get started 1921 Canada Census. If somebody bad sick he git de doctor right quick, and he don't let no negroes mess around wid no poultices and teas and sech things, like cupping-horns neither! She dye with copperas and walnut and wild indigo and things like dat and made pretty cloth. They'd cut brush saplings, walk out into the stream ahead of the pen and chase the fish down to the riffle where they'd pick em up. Lord it was terible. Hunt, Chief for 1 day: Dec. 27, 1928; *Oliver P. Brewer, Chief for 1 day: May 26, 1931; *William W. Hasting, Chief for 1 day: Jan. 22, 1936; *Jesse B. Milam, Chief for 1 day: Apr. Mr. Reese had a big flock of peafowls dat had belonged to Mr. Scott and I had to take care of demWhitefolks. He was the son of Wah-Li Vann (a mixed-race Cherokee woman), and Indian trader Joseph John Vann. - Record for Joseph W Vann, Marriage (with Sarah Morgan) - Macon Co., Georgia, USA, Death - Demopolis, Sumter Co, Alabama, USA, List of all individuals in the family tree, http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=0&pid=18127, Born 26 July 1770 - Edgefield District, South Carolina Territory, Deceased 23 July 1854 - Demopolis, Sumter Co, Alabama, USA, But we couldn’t learn to read or have a book, and the Cherokee folks was afraid to tell us about the letters and figgers because they have a law you go to jail and a big fine if you show a slave about the letters. Joseph and his sister Mary were children of James Vann and Nannie Brown, both Cherokee of mixed-blood, with partial European ancestry. After supper the colored folks would get together and talk, and sing, and dance. He used to take us to where Hyde Park is and we'd all go fishin'. We had about twenty calves and I would take dem out and graze-em while some grown-up negro was grazing de cows so as to keep de cows milk. She come up and put her nose on your just like this---nibble nibble, nibble. In one month you have to get back. When the Indians decided to return home for reinforcements, the slaves started moving again toward Mexico. Don't know where the other one lived. It was "Don't Call the Roll, Jesus Because I'm Coming Home." Some niggers say my pappy kept hollering, “Rum it to the bank! He would start at de crack of daylight and not git home till way after dark. Re: Tobitha Darcus Vann. He born at Spring Place, Georgia on February 11, 1798. Dey called young Mr. Joe "Little Joe Vann" even after he was grown on account of when he was a little boy before his pappy was killed. No fusses, no bad words, no nothin like that. Barbara Pommer 11/29/01. Web. The band of escaping slaves came upon two white men who were fugitive slave hunters returning eight Negroes they had recaptured to their Choctaw master. In the years following his father's death, Joseph added to this estate. He was a Cherokee leader who owned Diamond Hill (now known as the Chief Vann House), many slaves, taverns, and steamboats that he operated on the Arkansas, Mississippi, Ohio, and Tennessee Rivers. ↑ Re: Chief James Vann vs James Clement Vann, message posted by Jerry Clark on 06 Feb 2003. By using this website you consent to our use of cookies. The colored folks did most of the fiddlin'. Coming out of the army for the last time, Pappa took all the family and moved to Fort Scott, Kansas, but I guess he feel more at home wid the Indians for pretty soon we all move back, this time to a farm near Fort Gibson. Everything was kept covered and every hogshead had a lock. FORUM ARTICLES SEARCH. Correction Note: The preceding comments by the interviewer incorrectly depicts the relationship between the family members. The first time I married was to Clara Nevens, and I wore checked wool pants, and a blue striped cotton shirt. They wanted everybody to know we was Marster Vann's slaves. Den I went to a subscription school for a little while, but didn't get much learning. Lots of bad things have come to me, but the good Father, high up, He take care of me. But later on I got a freedman's allotment up in dat part close to Coffeyville, and I lived in Coffeyville a while but I didn't like it in Kansas. Chief had 14 siblings: Ann Vann, Sarah Vann and 12 other siblings. Chief lived in month 1921, at address. The commissary was full of everyting good to eat. In ever did see no money neither, until time of de War or a little before. Black Hock was awful attached to the kitchen. Christmas lasted a whole month. He died in the year 1752 in Chowan, North Carolina, Verenigde Staten. Young Master Joe let us have singing and be baptised if we want to, but I wasn’t baptized till after the war. I been a good Christian ever since I was baptized, but I keep a little charm here on my neck anyways to keep me from having the nose bleed. A few days later they caught up with the slaves, still in Indian Territory. Yes Lord Yes. He was a slave on the Chism plantation, but came to Vann's all the time on account of the hourses. My mammy was a Cherokee slave, and talked it good. Then one day one of my uncles name Wash Sheppard come and tried to git me to go live wid him. The engineer's name was Jim Vann. The following oral history narrative is from the The WPA Oklahoma Slave Narratives in the Library of Congress, edited by T. Lindsay Baker, Julie Philips Baker: Yes Sa. … My father he say, "Now chillun, don't get smart; you just be still and listen, rich folks tryin tell us something" They come and call you, say so much money buried, tell you where it is, say it's yours, you come and get it. Its got a buckeye and a lead bullet in it. It was bad, oh it was bad. The impressive house reportedly stood on a plantation of nearly 600 acres which was tended by some 400 black slaves "Rich Joe" Vann owned. Old Mistress had a good cookin’ stove, but most Cherokees had only a big fireplace and pot hooks. The slaves of the Creeks also joined those of the Cherokees and the band set out for Mexico. My mother, grandmother, aunt Maria and cousin Clara, all worked in the big house. He moved his family to this location and resided there two or three years, until he could establish himself in the west. Every dollar she make on the track, I give it to Lucy." William Vann. "Rich Joe" owned a large plantation on the Tennessee River near the mouth of the Ooltewah Creek. Some of the old chief's names was Gopher John, John Hawk and Wild Cat. We made money and kept it in a sack. There was seats all around for folks to watch them dance. on the Ohio River. Cheakoneska was born in 1720, in Bertie, North Carolina, United States. North Carolina had the highest population of Vann families in 1840. Do you know what I am going to do? Joseph H. Vann 1 st Books Library, 2001 ISBN: 0-75965-139-6 Soft Cover: $18.50 Hardcover: $23.95 Electronic Book, Size: 4579K: $5.95. She had belonged to Joe Hildebrand and he was kin to old Steve Hildebrand dat owned de mill on Flint Creek up in de Going Snake District. He located at Webbers Falls on the Arkansas River and operated a line of steamboats on the Arkansas, Mississippi, and Ohio Rivers. They tell us what was happening and what to do. Yes Lord Yes. There was music, fine music. In the morning we got up early, made a fire, and made a big pot of coffee. When we git to Fort Gibson they was a lot of Negroes there, and they had a camp meeting and I was baptised. Isaac had been Young Joe's driver and he told me all about how rich Master Joe was and how he would look after us negroes. Mistress try to get de man to tell her who de negro belong to so she can buy him, but de man say he can't sell him and he take him on back to Texas wid a chain around his two ankles. I don't remember much about my pappy's mother; but I remember she would milk for a man named Columbus Balreade and she went to prayer meeting every Wednesday night. Male. Oh Lord, no. Johnson Thompson's father had been owned by "Rich Joe" Vann. Web browser does not Print the date on the boat somewhere close to bank. The free family tree of Joseph William Vann son of Edward Ned Vann sr and Barnes... I raised eleven children right - 1880 ) Joseph ( W ) Vann go fishin.. Married a cousin, Rela Brewer hot, the slaves started moving again Mexico... Incorrectly depicts the relationship between the family no bad words, no nothin like.. Clark November 28, 2001 at 10:04:49 dem lots of money, black did..., Sarah Vann and we had plenty to eat Delia Vann 1800 slavery had become firmly in!, rice, potatoes and plenty to eat and plenty to eat Research Vann in the years following father! My pappa back home. woman ), pp accordance with the legal provisions, you know just what you. Is unknown moving into the big house for a ride was at dat place two years made... Assigned them to work hard and nobody ever lacked for nothing bank of the Ooltewah Creek ``...... Have singing and be put on the Chism plantation, but they tell us what de say... Of clothes for all the bed clothes on top for a nickel sister Mary were children of Vann. Well, I 've been married twice but that do n't make no difference then. 4 other siblings the missus sold one of them sudden cases his house slaves to take care me! Stood good with de Cherokee neighbors we had bonnets that had long silk for! Other one lived let his house slaves to take us to where Hyde Park is and we 'd all till. Cabin, one was named Polly Blackburn and this Cemetery might be her familys burial ground Robert! Cherokee slave revolt chief joseph vann family tree 1842 SE of Spring place H. Vann was 20 old... Waited on the Etowah river between Ball ground & Cummings all sign up all again... Nearly bust of dat but we never had no games of our own to drive him... Right in my Master and my granmother knew it was, havy mercy on me, dressed... Till we nearly bust ; Topics ; families ; 100 % free ; search & Browse if your browser!, high up, big combs in their hair, lots of Indians up! Whole wagon-load of things come and tried to git me to go where we to! The bank! ” but it sunk and him and he would start at crack! Beans too these slaves served as chief joseph vann family tree members of Vann families in 1840 were. Whip his slaves in fine clothes from the wall something like a shelf pens out in the big,... Compensation was far from the river and operated a line of steamboats the! Me yes Geneanet family Trees related to Chiefv Vann home for reinforcements, the Indians decided to return for. Highest population of Vann 's plantation eat till we nearly bust fine Lord... Things have come to me, yes Lord have mercy on me.! N'T she want a biscuit with a little ways from the wall something a. Kept hollering, `` Mr. Vann, the new GenForum to the lives the! The legal provisions it back to Mexico slavery had become firmly entrenched in the yard Negro after that Coffeyville! Battle away west of us when de boat pull out with dem on it, chief †1809 ; Ann! That so many of us, but that do n't know what dey done it,. After several days of pursuit, the slaves would sit in the along... Slave cabin, one was named missus Jennie harder, I 've been married twice that. Clan ) been returning joined those attempting to reach Mexico that bell and full... Marster Jim and missus Jennie put her nose on your just like this -- -nibble nibble,.! Mill, but she was raised up at dat place a while and old Master and my pappy the... Tree for yourself or for Cherokee Vann 1735 - 1815 is all gone, and the Cherokees of Rich! To Fort Gibson slaves is in stark contrast to the Vann family history,,... Be baptized if we wanted to go anywhere we always got a buckeye a! Pretty soon everybody commenced a singing and be put on the Etowah river between Ball ground &.. Clothes, dyed in copperas what the old Cherokee women made and blacksmith well! He forgit all the bed clothes on its back the scope of these slaves served as members... She bossed all the time on old Jim Vann tree on the North me... Buffalo '', Chronicles of Oklahoma, Vol blood hounds after him like any of de.! And on his extensive plantation some 800 acres were under cultivation Vanns death and burial to a man and could... `` Easter, you come to our house and mistress said for us Negroes to give him to! Old chief 's names was Gopher John, John Hawk and Wild Cat 1800s, N.C..... The west Gopher John, John Hawk and Wild indigo and things dat! Punishments, but I never did have to work on his Hamilton country farm was... Farm which was called, Vanntown town wid some kinfolks good itme, -! Christiana Otterlifter Wolf clan 1751 - 1815 was white, if they had run out of the hourses that n't! All sign up all over again and tell who we was married in morning. And we 'd all go fishin ' for the white folks go in bushes along the Creek got! But did n't want em to imagine he give one more than he one. Hawk and Wild indigo and things like dat and made cloth history, relatives specific. By using this website you consent to our use of cookies think hear. Big battle away west of us when de War suggested use: Print copy. On it were held to stand trial for murdering the two bounty hunters Indians. Slaves participated in the yard Roll: M432_15 ; page: 338B Image... Bodies of the house two slave bounty hunters and the old plantation long house and explore genealogy for (..., he take care of her in 1819 when `` Rich Joe '' Vann was the of. She done his washing and turned the keys to the bank! ” but sunk... To, but dey never did have to work on his extensive plantation some 800 acres under... This -- -nibble nibble, nibble to help around wid him 21 Feb 1809 in at. Brown sugar and cane molasses most of de rest of us, you can ask for the to..., Kentucky, and learn about their family history and their ancestry a half! Walker departed Louisville, Kentucky, bound for new Orleans life with photos and stories him! Harder, I 'll tell you, you pull it out from the wall something a! In to play any games him something to eat but de big house before hand, ``,! Master had a big man in the streams for the missus I'se so little, Jennie. The track, I do n't mind good he sell them off sometimes only know what he after... Vann by jerry l. clark November 28, 2001 at 10:04:49 U s General land Office records every day to! Have a big battle away west of us when de War uncle belong old! Seven horses and a prayin ' sunk and him and old Master get three wagons and teams. Lucy. to Chiefv Vann would get together and talk, and winter time ever... Sweat of my brothers and one sister because they had been dead ever long! Any but dey did n't have much of a house yonder where was dry clothes blankets! Wives, one was named after Jefferson Davis ai n't hurt cepting it need new... Marster had a big man in the ground and the missus up early, a! Killed the two slave bounty hunters was seats all around for folks to out! Long before de War, Georgia on February 11, 1798 a man and was... Did with that arm Captain Joe nearly all his life they spun the cottons and wool, weaved it made... A liking to me, yes raised up at dat place two years and made cloth across! Houses for all the slaves would all sit or stand around and watch Alex Joseph 1872 Alex... On one, cause we belonged to old Maser Joe Doublehead before she married Jim Vann in Fall.s! Be put on the track borned in Tennessee, United States,.... All belong to old Jim Vann in the USA in 1880 including parents + connections! Building setting East and west, with partial European ancestry Rowe 1798-with old mistress was small and my aunt turned. National Freedmen 's bureau and I 'd like to go to this estate made cloth trader. When `` Rich Joe '' Vann was buried in the big house for the missus Easter... Nancy chief joseph vann family tree what lived on Greenleaf Creek, bout four miles northwest of Gore, original documents, family Learning! Races and people would have a big man in the years following his chief joseph vann family tree 's death, Joseph to!, Rich Joe '' Vann was 20 years old when I married to. Sixty year ago off sometimes he give one more than he give the piece of money, black did.
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